#1: So many things removed.
Adjacency bonuses (rumor is that these were only removed because the new pathfinding AI had trouble with tightly packed bases). Sorry, Mithy. Gonna have to disagree on this one. I liked these bonuses.
Coordinated attacks.
No Aeon Navy? Lazy.
Formations. What? Were formations too complicated for the console kiddies?
Walls. The maps are small enough now for custom choke points to be useful now, and now we can't use them? Ugh....
AIR STAGING PADS!!! WTF!!!! I loved those pads in FA!
Aircraft that actually act like aircraft. Now we've got these things that just HOVER like it's Starcraft all over again. Didn't we used to mock those guys for this?
Air staging pads, which is a blunder so severe I feel the need to mention it again! What the hell, man?!
No more flow economy. So much hate.....
#2. Everything looks ugly now. Seriously, the UEF ACU was a beautiful peice of artwork in SupCom1. What's the matter? Is Square Enix not able to design something without spikey hair and a sword the size of a panzer tank? Everything from the ACU's to the land units to the aircraft carriers to the aircraft themselves looks horrible now.
#3. The Aeon Illuminate unit names. Weedoboth? Sooprizer? Wilfindja? Congratulations, Mr. Taylor. You've just been promoted to Janitor.
#4. The. Story. Makes. No. Sense. There are so many plot holes and things left unsaid. Why the hell did Maddox's units start attacking him in the opening mission? Why was Gauge harvesting mass on that naval mission? Where did Shiva come from? Was Shiva a left-over piece of Seraphim technology. I'd buy that, OH WAIT!! The Seraphim weren't so much interested in terraforming our galaxy as they were KILLING US ALL! Why the hell is the Illuminate government in charge of everything?! I just got done kicking their asses in Supreme Commander 1! I shoved my fist so far down their throats their bowel movements have my knuckle imprints on them! And what the hell happened to all the characters from FA? Like Crusader Rhiza, and General Hall? Hall was pretty old but Rhiza should still be out there somewhere, spreading the word of the Princess to those godless heathens. And are we not going to explain what happened to Princess Burke after she closed the Seraphim Rift? What about that teaser with QAI at the end of FA? You're not going to tell us what that was all about?! It's like Chris Taylor walked into the Square Enix board meeting, the execs took one look at him, and said "tell us about your franchise. You've got 30 seconds" and just went from there!
#5 My units are retarded now. I can't tell you how many times I've seen my units get stuck on buildings, the terrain, or each other with this new "improved" pathfinding system.
#6. The Characters are utterly unlikeable. In FA, I found myself really liking Fletcher's character when I played as the UEF and was genuinely sad when I had to send him straight to hell on the thermonuclear express. In SupCom2, I'd be happy to hand out tickets in bulk to the entire acting cast.
#7. WHAT DID YOU DO TO THE EXPERIMENTALS?!!? In SupCom 1, the Fatboy was a legend on the internet community! It could build units, shell enemy bases, had its own shield generator, defend against AA, go under water, shoot torpedos, and had 3 air staging pads on its back to support aerial operations. And you have the nerve....no, the UNMITIGATED GALL!!! to tell us that this new Fatboy "mark 2" is an improvement when you took all that away?! In SupCom 1, Experimentals were a "bring me my brown pants" moment, but now, they are a foot note. Have you no shame? Oh, since you apparently sold the franchise to Square Enix (WORST. BUSINESS. DECISION. EVER), I guess you don't.
#8. Nukes. Oh, apparently, we've gone back to the "slap on the wrist" nuke where things can now survive a direct hit from a strategic weapon. Even the toughest experimentals in FA were lucky to survive the outer blast radius of a nuke, and if they did, they were in no condition for battle. They were effed up, dude! Now, apparently, it takes several nukes to defeat a "major" experimental. Might as well just send the tanks in. They do a better job for less.
#9: Artillery. I feel like I'm firing nerf ammo at my enemy. Do these things even do any damage? I remember a time when, if I constructed an artillery battery, and a round went off in the middle of an enemy formation, the enemy commander had to clean up what was left with a handiwipe. Now, there's no point to building them. Just send in the tanks....
#10. Even more micro. Oh, good job cutting down on the micro like you promised to in the videos and ads you released before the game came out. You added another resource and the ui is about an intuitive as a Dell tech support worker. Oh, and apparently we "forget" everything we researched after the battle is concluded. What? In the year 3679, they haven't invented servers and databases? Let me be brutally honest.... I hate the research idea. I hate it SO much. This is WAR!!! We are not conducting field studies about your satisfaction of the war! This war is not being recorded for training purposes! You cannot dial 1-800-A$S-KICK for our War self-help hotline! We are here to annihilate your way of life be you Cybran, Aeon, or Seraphim, ride around in vehicles containing the maximum amount of horse power (and weaponry) allowed by local law enforcement (or the Geneva Convention), see our enemies driven before us, and hear the lamentation of their women. We don't make technological breakthroughs by shooting the knowledge out of a Harbinger's carcass. The enemy learns how to be dead and have a cheap funeral. Thank you, goodnight everybody.
You certainly have some kind of nerve pawning this game off on us, Mr. Taylor. It's buggy, ugly, BORING, and has a bad case of "let's be like Starcraft" syndrome. You sold out to Square Enix, a decision I, for the life of me, cannot understand, and this franchise has gone from something with vision to another member of the rank and file RTS market. If this is where the Supreme Commander franchise is going, I think I am not alone in saying that I will take my money somewhere else, and you'll have the pleasure of watching another company fold like it was playing poker with an empath, a klingon, and an android.|||Cry some more, I could disagree with everything you said, but let me sum it up this way:
Forged alliance still exists, go play it.|||ouch, dude. This post was partially meant for humor's sake. I thought the line about war would make you laugh a little bit.
Tough crowd.|||Ah, so you are a troll. Had to be sure.|||I can't actually be bothered to come up with the rational counterarguments to all this tripe, they have been repeated ad nauseum, and suffice it to say:
There is a logical explanation beyond "selling out" or "stupidity" For (almost) all these complaints, and FA still exists.|||Acknowledging your right to free speech and all this thread doesn't help when we are trying to get the devs to be more open about talking to the community. It really isn't beneficial to anyone that you would make a thread insulting their work even if it is meant as a joke.|||Zataku|||Cygnus + Madface, now + Zataku!|||I for one agree. FA > SC2|||After starting to play FA again, I see some validity to these points.|||I almost completely lost interest in playing FA after I played a (hastily) scale-adjusted SC2 demo. Not necessarily because I thought SC2 was an amazing game, but because it pointed out a lot of huge flaws in FA.
More is not necessarily better.|||AngryMacrophage|||Cry me a river... Youre late to the party dude. Heard all these before. Although I do agree on the campaign part. I liked FA story and characters way better. Plot holes everywhere.
For most other argument: Its another game dude. If you want everything exactly like in FA, PLAY FA!|||I love this thread.|||
|||_PINK|||1:The game can be rebalanced without it and it's just superfluous micomanagement.
Coordinated attacks didn't work well in SupCom.
I miss Aeon navy.
Formations are made automatically now IIRC.
Walls are superfluous
Aircraft with infinite fuel work better. I don't mind hovering aircraft.
I miss the flow economy.
2: Looks are worse, I agree. Not necessarily on the technical aspect but more on the artwork.
3: agree, I'd like to play a war game, not some game at a kid's party.
4: I agree on the story. Even more than you do. I'll link you this, it's better than the original SupCom and FA story, and by far supreme to SupCom2: http://forums.gaspowered.com/viewtopic.php?t=9190&start=0
If you like it, be ready for a long read, it's 13 books now in total and this is probably the shortest one.
5: Disagree. FA is slower, can lag several times (I mean that every single unit in the game won't obey orders for over fifteen seconds on a larger map, that's 40x40 and up). I haven't seen the units get stuck on buildings or each other in SupCom2. If they bump, they immediately bump in the right direction whereas you can keep engineers in FA busy for an hour by letting them bump.
It is however, not the brilliant "armies move perfectly through each other" as I expected after I read about it. They more like "bump through each other". But it's improved.
6: Agree, but this is part of point 4.
7: Experimentals don't seem nearly as awesome as with SupCom and FA (The Darkenoid completely pales in comparison to the CZAR).
8: I have no problem with the nukes in this game, apart from the fact that you apparently have to make a choice between them or something else. In FA, you have the whole high tech force available with a few upgrades. Those are expensive though. I'm still not sure which way I find better, but the way the research system is worked out is by far not perfect imo. It's still an exponential system and that's what Taylor wanted to avoid, wasn't it?
9: Artillery isn't nearly as expensive in this game as in FA. How many do you build?
10: I agree. I don't feel that we now have much less micro management as in FA, but I don't mind both levels of work. Cutting down massively on the micro isn't what happened though.
Quote:|||Zataku|||Thanks, Plasma. I really appreciate such an in-depth answer. Truly you are a SupCom scholar. Gold Star for you! *awards*
And a second gold star for recommending such a well written fanfic. *awards*|||Plasma_Wolf|||or maybe the Quantum Tunnel is so turbulent that it would tear off those upgrades? Might also be the reason they don't just teleport a nuke to the planet surface and blow the enemy into tiny bits.....in thy mercy.
But honestly, information and data is ALOT easier to transmit than physical material. Is there any reason why we couldn't start off with a few research points or something instead of starting from scratch every time?
To sum up. FA, taking away upgrades after each battle makes sense......kinda
SupCom2, taking away research data. Doesn't make sense, and there's not even an attempt to handwave it away.|||Zataku|||Huh....that kind shoots my point right in the ***. I have played the game, but its just been a heck of a long time since I did.|||Do not forget about getting a copy of DLC1 as well. Personally, the more I do play this game the more I do like it. Actually, I do have dozens of reasons on why I do love the SupCom2 game. Maybe I do post them all on here in the future.
|||I have a far more simpler explanation: "Physics that magically fit the game mechanics." There you have it. Slap something with quantum on it and you're ready to go.
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