Loyalists still suck abyssally.

This is a whine post, and I contend that all the content is completely correct. Can anyone produce a single valid counterargument?|||Abyssally? Don't you mean abysmally?|||Like the abyss.|||My counterargument is that you derp too often spuddy, therefore producing unreliable results. Please notify Word for rigulous testing and proceed to create a 40 page loyalist land buff thread.|||Cygmus|||spuddyt|||I agree atm 4 aeon facs beats 5 cybran even with cybran micro (not perfect micro).|||I think the problem with loyalists is that they were made with a game revolving around map-control in mind. If Supcom 2 was all about controlling as many expansions mexes as possible, and it wasn't so absurdely impractical and abysmally expensive to expand, Cybran would probably be able to counteract the crappiness of their main combat unit by the fact that they'd be able to almost completely deny expansion to the other factions earlygame.
But, as obvious as it is that something needs to be done, I'm still firmly against a straight up buff, because that'd just turn the loyalist into a tank.|||Z32|||If air wasn't so powerful on big maps then indeed bots would be much more practical than tanks.|||Cygmus|||Quote:|||I find that the buff in my mod:
MaxSpeed = 4.0 > 4.2
MaxRadius (range) = 17 > 18
Works perfectly.

Maybe another idea would be to give mobile AA the same speed as assault bots, so you can actually do something with that extra speed? That would make them more useful on bigger maps, as stated.|||TheWord|||I agree with....everybody? So far no actual naysayers on loyalists being UP. I'm with Word on needing a direct buff, though. Otherwise, how on earth could it become balanced? Maybe if speed and jump jets were made way, way cheaper rp-wise...|||I should clarify, the main purpose of this thread is simply to call together agreement on the idea of whether loyalists are underpowered or not.
Thus far, the only person who has said anything to the effect of not is Z32, and he has not denied that loyalists do require something to be done to fix them.
I think that if anything, this level of consensus on a forum like this demonstrates just how serious of a problem this is.|||spuddyt|||This thread is not about titans or harvogs. There are ways around those problems.
This thread is about loyalists.|||spuddyt|||Allow them to fire while JJ'ing, that would be goddamned hilarious.|||I think that loyalists need a major buff without making them identical to a tank like unit to maintain the faction diversity. I think that to compensate for their short range they should have a major health buff so keep them alive longer. I also think it would be neat for them to have a uniquely high regeneration so that they can skirmish and recover instead of just staying at low health and then die before they even get into range during the next engagement. I think health buffs would still allow them to be kited by tanks but they would be able to hold their own better in a direct battle. This would help make them an effective land unit if they are on the assault.|||TheWord|||If mexes aren't valuable, fast assault bots that are otherwise inferior to tanks won't be either.
Likewise, as has been mentioned, if air is comparatively more effective against (even AA-defended) ground units than assault bots, then even fixing mexes won't make them useful.
Both of these problems are not new and existed to a degree in FA (in the form of fast/short T3 SABs vs slow/long T3 AABs), although at least mexes were important raid targets. 10x10 maps with defensible clustered mexes provided pretty much the only SAB-oriented raiding/combat targets in FA against which air was not automatically more effective and cost-efficient.

Actually, the FA patch 3603 boost to mobile stealth generator speed provided a decent boost to the value of Loyalist + Deceiver groups. As mentioned, doing something like that with Adaptors might help (but probably not enough).|||Z32|||TheWord