Flares still OP

Flares are still very very OP.
Reduce the number of redirecting shots to 2 or maybe even 1. It's basically like an extra shield every time the flare drops it deflects 3 incoming shots. Which is in addition to the shield, absolutely the most OP **** in the game.
It's comparable to having a unit with two shields that operate independently to each other.|||Wont bringing it down to 1 shot make the air suffer just too much? Its a very strong upgrade, wich makes it have a big impact on the air when its nerfed. Right now It approx blocks 150 damage against cybran and aeon air, and 75 damage against uef.
I have a small suggestion: Why not make the Aeon and cybran F/B shoot 4 missiles instead of 2 also? the three units would then have 75 damage reduced instead of 150 (50% nerf)|||Flares aren't that big of a concern compared to wasp spam... They just won't win over that lot in the end.|||Flares aren't the problem, it's a.weak ground-based AA and b.scorch that multiplies the previous problem.|||Xagar|||Another part of the problem is the lack of a good late-game upgrade for cybran air which is comparable to flares and air forts.|||- Lategame ground based AA sucks
- Lategame UEF air spam with air forts too good, other factions cant keep up with it once you get one
- Lategame cybran air a tad too weak
- Lategame Aeon air too good - Part of the problem is the extra health upgrade in DLC1, and flares.|||Nephylim|||TheWord|||Quote:|||Z32|||I find the Cybran situation acceptable. It reasonably falls under faction diversity to say that in an all-out air war, Cybrans cannot win and need to rely on adaptors/structure det/bomb bouncers/etc.
Cybran air is not useless: not by a long shot. It has many uses when the enemy isn't spamming wasps or upgraded weedoboths. It has early-game potential with the only free AOE bomb (which, granted, isn't great). (EDIT: all (fighter/)bombers have the same starting AOE.) Their gunships are rape, both as a surprise in 1v1 early/midgame and in team games. I could go on.
But while the Aeon and UEF counters to air are better air and more air (respectively), the Cybran counter is something entirely different. This seems OK to me.
It's similar to how the Cybran counter to mass tanks is not loyalists, but instead megaliths (or mass brackmans if the tank blob is big enough, or nanogun, or whatever). Early-game you're at a disadvantage in loyalist vs. tank battles, but can still compete in many cases. Mid- and late-game you need better counters, as once it's a straight-up basic-unit-vs.-basic-unit fight, Cybrans lose.
(Please be gentle, this is my first time jumping into the forum's always-exciting balance discussions...)|||Domenic|||How about the 30% ROF upgrade applies to the Gemini as well (both air-to-air and air-to-ground), 30% more shots will help with the flare situation at a little bit against Aeon, as well as account for the fact that the Cybran has no splash damage upgrades on their bombers (and despite what the posted above me said, Gemini starts with the same splash damage as the other factions. P.S. Would love to see this raised to 3).
The Gemini can take on Weedoboths no problem early game with smart upgrading (regen->30% health right away, star training after that if you still have good numbers, otherwise switch to adaptors!), despite the Aeon's cost advantage. Wasps on the other hand are 98% impossible to take on because of their VASTLY superior numbers, no matter what stage of the game. The tide turns quite quickly against the Gemini though the moment Aeon get flares...so about that 30% ROF upgrade.
Another possible help would be to move the 35% damage upgrade to be parallel to the Renegade Gunship instead of behing it (so it goes flight speed to a choice of damage or gunship, damage goes straight to soul ripper, gunships leads to gunship rate of fire upgrade which leads to soul ripper), so when we are in a strictly air battle we dont have to waste 3rp on a unit we can't even use because we don't have superiority.|||FunkOff|||According to SupComDB, all bombers as of version 1.20 have a damage radius of 2 before upgrades.|||Adapters are not exactly stellar vs AC1000's.... particularly once they start building up to decent numbers. and BB's are pretty much useless against them since they can outrange.|||Except that adapters absolutely rape AC1gays. With their retarded movement you can never keep them out of range.|||Cygmus|||TheWord|||60-70% then by the look of things. Even worse than I thought |||Though I think flares get more powerful the more there are in the blob fight|||spuddyt|||Archanists and Crahdows arent so lucky though. And still you need at least a hundred adaptors to defend a lategame base including expansions. Which is impossible - AT that point mass weedoboths still kill your scattered adaptors.|||A lategame base shouldn't really be worrying to much about extractors, and if all those ~100 weedoboths can do is snipe the odd outlying mex then they weren't exactly the best investment.
Crahdows don't have to worry because they've also got flaredoboths on their side, and Archanists have their wasp spam. Cybran are the only faction who'se air-to-air option isn't strong enough lategame to compete with flaredoboths, but coincidentally they're also the only faction with a ground-to-air option strong enough to wipe them.