Mass Conversion isn't really overpowered because if you rush it, you get owned pretty quickly, but I know that most games among good players end up being between whoever's survived, and that's usually the people who spammed powered generators. They are commonly called "wankers".
I hate MC. I really do. Every game ends in needless pgen spam.|||I wouldn't mind if Mass conversion worked like regular mass extractors, that they would give a slow yet constant amount of mass for a price in energy. They can be paused if your energy is too low. It would still have an effect in the game, just not so drastic as it is now. On top of that it would reduce micro management.
Anyway, just a thought.|||There are two problems that make MC bad in Supcom 2.
First, the initial mass/energy outlay to get MC is quite low. In TA, the outlay for MMMs was considerable - 5000+ metal for one fusion/MMM combo, and about a 5 minute delay before making your money back. Likewise, in Supcom and FA, the initial outlay was fairly large. This also makes it rather difficult to reconstruct once destroyed.
Second, the very basic thing that more efficient economy created volatile buildings. This forced expansion and put a limit on how close together you could safely put your buildings. In TA, you were especially vulnerable to artillery fire if you had a lot of combos up, and a chain reaction in a farm using adjacency bonuses in FA could obliterate an entire base.
This last point I think is especially an important thing to have in the game for a couple reasons - first, building and blowing up higher tech resources is just fun. Second, it's quite easy to understand - anybody gets that a T3 power gen is better than a lot of T1 gens.
In Supcom 2, the only thing that's hard about getting MC is amassing the moderate amount of RP without dying.
In short: bring back volatile pgens!|||I hated them in SupCom 1 and I do hate them in SupCom2.
I really don't see why they are even in the game.
Part of the reason I'm now playing StarCraft 2, I believe that map control simply must matter in a strategy game.
If I do play supcom2 nowadays I usually just turn off the mass conversion. More fun that way.|||I don't like it much in it's current form, but I feel that all three SupCom instalments have had problems finding the proper balance for this feature. For those who don't know, SupCom 1/FA had a constant yeld for their mass converters.
In SC:1 you could build them right away and it would cost only two t1 power plants to power one fabricator, minus the bonus for building stuff close to one another. This lead to people building large fields of power plants and fabricators by their bases. Their weakness was that they exploded and often started a chain reaction when destroyed. I have to say that large mass fields with the spinning discs were quite fun, but honestly the game mechanic was too dominant and quite frankly silly.
In SC:FA the fabricators were not available until T2, and it would now take a whopping 7.5 t1 power plants to power one fabricator. This lead to mass fabrication to being almost completely absent from the game, and only something you would build late game when you have access to T3 power plants and there are no available mex spots on the map.
In SC2 mass conversion is buried in the research three, but if you are able to unlock it then it will be mighty powerful. Building power plants and converting their energy is, if my calculations are correct, a more efficient way to produce mass than actually making mass extractors. As I know others have argued before, the economy of a player with mass conversion will grow exponentially, and players without mass conversion will be unable to compete.
Personally I do not think that mass conversion adds to the game as much as it makes it imbalanced. However mass conversion is really the only way to expand an economy, other that obtaining map control, because there is no way to upgrade mass extractors. In that sense it really needs to stay in order for the game to have the illusion of depth in it's economy.|||The problem is that once the Mass conversion stage of the game is reached, the entire point of map control is lost. And its no fun for anyone, to just sit in their base all day and fap, especially when your playing with some douche with a sim speed of -8.|||TA econ balance was wonderful D=|||I like mass convo
Am I seriously the only one? I'd just like normal mass extraction to be a bit more effective in comparison so it doesnt become useless in lategame, but still, I DO like mass conversion.|||Nephylim|||I think mass conversion is fine. Easily spammed power generators on the other hand, are broken as hell.|||Pgens are dirt cheap so it's impossible to crash your energy economy like in FA
It would be cool if pgens base mass cost was 70 + the number of pgens you presently have.|||I hate mass conversion. But when I host games with no mass conversion, it is harder to get a game going. Probably the main reason I keep going back to FA, even with the infinite build queue changes in SupCom2 (which was definitely a step in the right direction).
Seriously, I really dislike how mass conversion makes map control unimportant, and I also dislike the massive amount of unit spam that results from nearly unlimited mass.|||You see unit spam?
All the games I play people artillery and nuke spam. The last FFA I was involved no land units. It was ended when Pulse built 10 or so mega fortresses and crashed them into the enemy's base, kill his SMD.|||I like mass conversion, its the only thing in the game, that sometimes brings back the eco feeling of FA. As long as it isnt imba, which it isnt, requiring massive amounts of rp and ressources to build up in the first place, i like it and dont want to miss it in the game.|||What I think is the problem with MC is that there is hardly an initial investment needed. Okay, you need some spare RP, but when you've paid those, it's free sailing. You only need to build anywhere from 2 to 5 convertors to give you all the conversion power you'll ever need. And convertors don't really cost much in terms of mass and energy. They build very quickly as well. So as soon as someone researches MC, he'll have maximum conversion capabillity pretty much instantly.
My suggestions:
- Build cost (especially mass) of converters should be much higher. Like 300 mass minimum. You have to invest mass to build extractors, so why shouldn't you have to invest mass to build convertors?
- The cooldown on the conversion ability should be significantly longer, so that your mass income is not only capped by the amount of PPs, but also by the amount of convertors you have.
To not downright nerf conversion, the RP cost could go down a bit and maybe the energy-to-mass efficiency could be boosted.|||FunkOff|||TheWord|||This thread is obsurd,
Your complaining that someone is spamming energy generators to make a huge economy, that takes time
you are obviously
a. letting them build that up
b. not attacking early
c. not rushing
d. a combination of any of the above
If you let someone camp in their base for 15-20 minutes while building huge amounts of power generators and mass converts you desserve to lose
I like mass converters, but rush building ac1000 is very effective and you dont need mass converters to do that,
At 7ish minutes you can have an ac1000 heading over to the enemy base and if all he's building is research stations to get his mass converters up quickly, he's dead
I can't believe everyone is complaining so much about this game, and always referencing games that are 3-7 years old
Get over it,|||pdmasta|||Nephylim|||VoW-Kryo|||Meh, you need another income boost, or do you want to have games where it takes ages to save up for air fortress so you can only get like 1 in a 4v4 game?
MC is a necessary evil really, however I certainly wouldn't mind if they'd replace it with some good econ boost.|||I really don't care whether mass converters are balanced or not, it's simply a boring gameplay mechanic. If I want to play Sim City, I go and play Sim City.
Late game economy could be solved in a number of other ways, like high yield mass spots or upgradable mass extractors.|||Verity|||Verity
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