Could the Seraphim be coming to SupCom2

Please go to this page, there is a thing of interest on it... A possible Seraphim return, read the paragraph just above the game case picture.
Note I am only guessing, by what I read there. I am probably wrong.
http://uman.square-enix-europe.com/trac ... l&id=VIDEO|||uh no, that's just fluff speak. That whole thing is primarily for the DLC pack.|||I concur with above.
However, I would like to see seraphim in supcom 2. They were my fav in FA |||The game files already reference the Seraphim, at least in the UI section. There are Textures (Seraphim_Load.dds, etc.) and other things in there. I certainly hope this means they come back.|||Please god, no!
Though, it would be quite an easy way to do a second DLC. Everyone gets Seraphim, but only people who buy it can use them, and can play with everyone else, even those with no DLC.
But I ******* hate the seraphim. They were just so...useless. They were missing tons of units that other factions had recieved ages ago. They had the correct number, for a vanilla faction, but before FA came out. I can imagine it again, them having the same number and complexity of research tree of a pre-dlc faction, instead of the complexity and depth of a post dlc one.|||I donno, the Seraphim's main selling point is the fact that any and all of their units are powerhouses that are more powerful than any other faction's equivalent.
Unfortunately for them, their T1 tanks had to be balanced, or they'd simply roll over everyone. And because most games end in a T1 vs T1 blob (with T2 having difficulty making a dent), the Seraphim got themselves screwed.
Plus think of it this way: In SupCom2, we only have (counting only UEF ground forces) 1 tank, 1 artillery, 1 bot, 1 shield, 1 AA, 2 Engineers, 1 ACU and 2 Exps. That's not a lot of variety either.
The Seraphim will fit right in...|||The seraphim would've fit so perfectly in supcom 2, I was so sad they excluded them.
Though, that being said we'll probably not see them in this game, since, fluffwise, their units and stuff got merged into the aeon (hell, they even stole the sera gunship).|||wkz|||Submersible destroyer is still the coolest single idea I've ever encountered, and the Ilshavoh was baller.|||ninjageek|||Z32|||I felt that your mod was terribly and disagreed strongly with how you envisioned 'faction diversity'
I believe we went through this once before.|||Z32|||I looked back at my mod and, apparently, supcom 2 took a lot of cues from it. For example, the limited units from the start. In my mod, all you got from a T1 naval fac was a frigate. All a T1 air fac gave you was a bomber. Pretty similar to supcom 2.|||FunkOff|||wkz|||There would need to be a proper expansion pack to bring them back, just sticking them in a DLC pack without any story behind it might annoy some ppl. And I'm not sure the community behind supcom2 is large enough to make an expansion pack viable.
I'm not even convinced that we'll see another DLC, I hope that we do.. But how many people actually purchased DLC1? There's been talk on the forums of it splitting the community so I'm guessing that not everyone got it?|||redmoth|||DeadMG|||Z32|||Kahooli|||How do their T3 Subs do vs air?|||Kahooli|||Faction roles, imo should be:
Cybran: Multipurpose, stealth
UEF: Brute force, turtling
Aeon: Tactical strike
Seraphim: ????? They had no defined role, really, besides combining the other three. imo the problem with the entire faction.|||FunkOff

Lategame air needs a nerf or lategame anti air a buff

I think I already posted this earlier, but i dont know exactly.
Id like to give some thoughts about air in SupCom2.
What is wrong with it?
Well in the early game till 8-10 minutes air seems fine. You can easily counter them with mobile anti air.
But the later the game, the imba air gets. The only way to counter air as non-cybran is air itself. and that sucks.
Why is that so?
While in early game you dont have enough bombing power to insta kill any target, you have to do several circles above the enemies anti air to kill something. this is why anti air gets enough time to make some damage.
While in the end you have over 9000 bombers (at least) and they will insta kill any tower, any anti air blobs, any factories, and any shield, your ground anti air cannot do full damage.
Air blobs release full damage within 2 seconds, anti air is dead and could only shoot 2 or 3 seconds, doing nearly no damage.
How could one fix this?
An example of how to fix it is Adaptors. Those do enough damage and due to shields can only hard be insta killed.
Im sure you dont want to add shields to all Ground Anti air.
Maybe the players here have some more ideas, but i would think of Splash upgrade for anti air in late game. THis could solve it, cos bombers are always crowded when not microed (atm there is no need or micro).
What do you think about this? if we come up with good reasons we might see some changes/additions in further patchs/dlcs|||As I explained before, the adaptor shield can absorb tremendous damage because it seems to stay up for a few ticks after receiving its damage limit, allowing it to block 10 or more bombs.
If UEF shields or unit personal shields worked this way, I think they would resists bombers better late game.|||but 1. they dont and 2. that would be a bug more or less ^^
but would you agree that lategame anti air needs a buff?|||Well there are late game AA upgrades. Bombbouncers, Airnomo, Megafort. The only one of those that needs a buff is the airnomo. It could do with what we did to it in the CBP (more range and damage). There isn't need for it to have AoE because with the range and damage it absolutely rapes air, the air may bomb what they want to bomb but they lose a LOT in that effort.|||megafortress is not the kind of air counter i like. its air. and id like to have alternatives to air. I think for uef the rockhead/arty/bot aa upgrade is ok too, but as aeon, as you point out, the only valid thing would be airnomo which sucks.|||If I were able to change the game, I'd change the way air balance works. Anti-air, whether turret or to a lesser extent mobile AA, would tear apart gunships. Bombers should be used to neutralize ground-based AA especially turret. Gunships would be devastating to undefended ground, but would be very vulnerable to AA fire and fighters.
While it's true there's some counters to Air such as the Airnomo and Bomb Bouncers, it doesn't take into consideration that those units can only be in one place at at a time. If you build static AA, or an airnomo, or a bomb bouncer... just use your air to hit elsewhere. Meanwhile, those static AA turrets and slow ground units are out of position and not providing a benefit for how much mass they took to construct.
About the only land-based AA i actually like is the Pullensmash, because it has a wide enough area to provide good coverage and works versus air and ground.
Right now the game has a lot of tools available to defeat someone how focuses entirely on ground. LRA, Fatboys, Jackhammers, Fortified Artillery, Urchinows, Collosi, Kryptors, Megaliths, AC-1000s, Soul Rippers, Sooprizers, Dinos, Monkeylords and standard gunships are HARD counters to masses of T1 units. To stop masses of gunships you have... Bomb bouncers, Airnomos (both of which have to be in the right place at the right time and can be outflanked). Really, your only real counter to Air is going Air, what with all the hard counters to Land that exist.
A simple solution to me would be Flak. There needs to be a mid/late structure and land upgrade that provides some sort of area of effect AA capability. Gunships, while typically better than bombers because they don't spread around so much, could be countered hardest by it. It'd make you think twice before gunship-sniping ACUs or important structures.
I'm a huge fan of Supcom2, but the one part of the game I feel is really out of whack is the Air balance. I don't feel like they've taken the mobility factor into consideration when doing the balancing.|||VoW-Kryo|||but on some occasions if you dont start with air, you even wont get an air player, that started producin earlier with air. even as uef.
The problem with air battles is: Once you have an advantage you will not lose it fast.|||VoW-Kryo|||VoW-Kryo|||Aside from the usual buff Airnomo, AA turret, which both are necessary, what about increasing build times for air units? If blobs are such an issue, turning up the build times by 10-20% could potentially help.|||Thinking about it, I would be happy if they doubled the attack range of mobile AA but left the damage alone.|||Theres a distinctive lack of decent upgrades for mobile anti-air in general, whilst air units generally get a bevy of air-to-ground upgrades.
I think a univerasal nerf to wasp/gemini/weedoboth health (perhaps as much as 20%) would help make them easier to crowd control by anti-air into the lategame. Additionally, I have almost never seen any real gunship play by cybran or aeon since the well-needed gunship nerf. Now that they aren't partifularly broken, it isn't really worth teching them when you have an air-to-ground unit that is RP-free, and also your most effective air-to-air.
A huge health nerf to them would mean that, while they retain their bombing capability, it is relegated to only sniping undefended targets, necessitating gunships to perform any sort of real air-to-ground damage under the presence of anti-air. In addition, it'd increase the strategic variation and skill involved in air combat, since flying over a patch of anti-air would be able to do significant damage to an air blob.
Currently, if someone lures your air blob over your anti-air and trieds to engage you, you can simply run away outside of the aa range, and turn back to engage, and the damage and losses are minimal. The only way anti-air is really going to impact a battle for air supremacy is if somepone is stupid enough to fight over enemy aa.
If fighters had much lower health, simply drawing the enemy blob over aa for a few moments would be enough to deal considerable damage, even without actually engaging them over it. The location and positioning of your ground-based anti-air would be a pivotal element of combatting for air supremacy, and creating another element to air combat beyond "hurr I build more fighter".
I think this might be of particular benefit to cybran, considering they ultimately get the best and most mobile anti-air, to pair along with the worst fighter. And the lack of bombing upgrades for the gemini wouldn't be quite so much of a shortcoming.|||Add an option on each AA tower to either convert it, for the price of 200 mass, into EITHER a flak tower, or a SAM tower. Flak does small damage, large splash. SAM does large damage, no splash. SAM is best versus late game experimentals. Flak is best versus blobs.|||A research option to do that wouldn't be too bad either. Maybe to replace that goddawful shields-for-defence-towers research.|||Nerfing lategame air will create stalemates or very long boring games. I think it is fine as it is.|||I'd like lategame (mobile) aa buffed. I'd like mobile AA buffed in general. I'd probably like a range buff best.|||Manta|||I rather want tower AA to not be able to kill a massive blob of air though. How else is air going to be effective against turtlers? I definitely wouldn't mind making mobile AA better though as air is currently too strong against ground units, but air seems to be quite balanced against bases and turtlers to be honest.|||The issue here is that air units can dish out all their DPS in three seconds, whereas AA towers (especially the Airnomo) cant.|||Grim Tuesday|||VoW-Kryo|||Aeon get teleport and shields on their MAA. If the map isnt too big, they do quite well. You get problems when covering big distances. Still, they have the best AA towers (shield and damage upgrade)|||Nephylim|||Fair point about detonate. But, if you are going to count in cost, you might as well count the Aeon economy bonuses, which are 25% more mass and energy, which you can also interpret as a 20% cost decrease for EVERYTHING. Also, shields regenerate WAY faster than health, so it counts for more.
Edit: Due to shield mechanics, shields are even better because they suck up overkill. And another point you might want to consider: Aeon shields have 25% more health than cybran ones, and give you energy when fired upon.

DLC RELEASED write up and price

*EDIT*
NOW RELEASED ON STEAM
*EDIT*
PC Gamer release Article on DLC, with the price tag.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/09/27/supreme-commander-2-infinite-war-out-tomorrow/
£7 to me is well worth it.
So where do i sign up :)|||I've bought Supreme Commander on the release date 50€. FA on the release date +- 30€. Supreme Commander 2 on the release date 55€. And now they want me to pay 10€ for stuff that should have been in the release (I'am talking about the map, not the units)? No thanks.|||
So how much are the units worth to you?
Chris|||Downloading right now.|||Its out!?!?
*goes to check steam*
HOLY ****
Downloading also
Chris|||Yep: http://store.steampowered.com/dlc/40100/ :)|||and we get extra maps as well. Who said Xbox360 was the only one getting maps. Wonder how many maps we get?
Edit: Wow 8 new maps. I am very happy at my new purchase.|||mojom@n|||They need much more accurate screenshots for the DLC. The ones shown on the steam page appear to be old SupCom 2 screenshots.|||Spooky|||I've paid 60€ for this game (to have all the bonus maps).
Now the bonus maps are available to everyone and I have to pay 10€ more for a small DLC ?
Well that's not gonna happen, sry. 5€ would have been ok but 10 is just a lame joke|||No this is a lame joke.....
Quote:|||you wish
10€ is like a half of the "full" game's price.|||chrislove01|||The price is fine. If you dont agree dont buy. Your loss.
Capitalism at work ;-D|||Indeed, it is your choice.
Mine is downloaded and ready to go
|||Bought it.
This will be awesome |||does it change the normal units's balance ?|||The game won't start. I think it is because I had it at rez of 1920*1080 and now I'm away from home and I'm using a monitor that has a rez of 1680*1050 so the game won't start. does any one know what I can do? or is it just a bug. it was doing it yesterday as well so it isn't the DLC.
edit: I deleted the game pref file and the game started fine. thanks for the help. cheers.|||Quote:|||Well personally I think...
cyrilthebest8|||Damn, that review is absolute gold. Made me LOL pretty damn hard at times.|||_Golgoth_|||cyrilthebest8|||Asking price is a bit steep.
I'll wait for an eventual sale, I think.

[BUG] Factories and ACUs do not finish when paused

According to the patch notes of the "Infinite Queue" patch (1.23), factories and engineers will finish their current job when paused.
Quote:|||I also have noticed that the unit in production also pauses with the factory, unlike how it should be.|||RPhilMan1|||Spooky|||Actually I haven't noticed this. Whenever I pause a fac, the unit finishes building. I don't know about ACU or engies though.|||According to sorian it only happens with the DLC active.|||Fixed in the last patch (also for the Factories, not just the ACU).

Half Baking.

So it recently occurred to me that some experimentals, like the Cicada, don't necessarily need to attack to prove useful.
In this case, what is the downside to half-baking aside from the fact that they come out of the factory with lower health and occasionally stop moving? As long as a Cicada's ability remains active during the EMP, it doesn't really matter if it's half-baked or not, and its already sizeable healthpool still remains quite considerable, even at 1/2.|||I have not half baked a cicada, but every XP I have bake is nearly useless. The ML, for example, has to re-accelerate after every EMP, cutting it's speed to *maybe* as high as half as without the EMP.
Also, the cicada's primary defense is it's speed... it can dodge as well as a small unit. I would say half baking a cicada is prolly not worth it.|||Quote:|||Air forts are nice to half bake, but only when you dont really have time. Ive never really had the need to, and the ability to move them is pretty neat.
Still, I would like the EMP to wear down at some point.|||Air forts have almost as much ground dps as AC-1000s.|||I particularly like their crash damage, but thats just to rub into someones face that his power farm strategy fails.
Step 1: make 4 air forts
Step 2: Fill each with 25 gunships
Step 3: Move to enemy base and launch them
Step 4: Crash air forts into enemy power farm
Step 5: Snipe ACU with gunships before his air/AA kills them all|||I have only half-baked a unit once. I was playing a 3v3 and we were about to be overrun. So, i half-baked my fatboy and when my opponent saw the shells he completely stopped his advance and retreated. Thats the only time i've seen it work. If he kept pushing though, he would have easily wiped out my base.|||I think that this was one of CTs really great ideas, it just wasn't implemented properly. It's obviously a niche ability; it's only used if you are out of time. I think that if they had the EMP stop once the machine was fully repaired, or if not that, then after a certain amount of time, it might be used more often. Granted, this has been discussed huge already, but I still stand by this.|||If the EMP stopped when it was repaired there would be no point in not half baking. I like half baking the way it is myself. It's not something you do because you could use it earlier, it's something you do when you're desperate. I won a 4v4 by half baking a cicada to save me from a certain red menace's protobrains just today. The game I played against Cyclonic in the CEVO tournament I half baked a bomb bouncer to save my commander from a tank drop. I don't understand the complaints about half baking. You don't have to use it, and if you do, you do so knowing you're gimping your experimental.|||The point I was trying to make is that something like the Cicada, whose primary effect isn't at all impacted by being half-baked, would probably benefit more from being finished in 1/2 the time than it would be gimped by the EMP.
It might actually be effective, especially when rushing it in a 1v1 or the like, to half bake your cicada and just send an engineer to follow it around, slowly repairing it whenever it EMP's. It takes half the time to build it, but its stealth ability isn't affected at all (atleast, I assume so).
Megaforts are the same idea; nobody ever builds megaforts for anything other than buildpower, so assuming the EMP doesn't pause production, there's really no reason to not HB them.|||With a commander assisting it, you're only getting yourself a little extra time by half baking it, but you're also slowing its deployment anyways due to the emp, so I'd say it's not worth half baking unless you need it immediately.|||I have never half baked. Only fully baked. |||Well, Having the EMP stop after a while STILL gives you a reason to not use it: The few minutes in between, you cant really use it offensively. You try to kite with an EMPing megalith..|||Yeah a BB can be useful to HB...you usually want one over your com anyway and it doesn't really need to move.

Patch 1.24

Fixes and Improvements

• Increased lobby timeout to 8 seconds as an experiment, up from 4. This will increase matchmaker leniency, but may result in more shaky connections being permitted into games
  
• Save Game Load fixes. Rare broken save games from v1.23 should load correctly now
  
• Fix for illuminate Quantum Floating units sometimes not leaving wreckage, not firing off their death weapon, and not being able to fire their weapons when built on water
  
• Fix for ACUs not finishing their current project when paused
  
• Fixed UI based economy exploit

Balance

• Adjusted vanilla tuning of Loyalists to match DLC.
  
• Adjusted vanilla tuning of Cybran Jump Jets to match DLC.
  
• Adjusted DLC tuning of Illuminate PD to match vanilla

AI

• Fix for AI platoons being too timid.
  
• Increased AI Prioritizing of enemy ACUs.
  
• Fix for the AI researching items twice after loading a saved game or starting a game with all research unlocked.
  
• Neural Net platoon fixes to salvo calculations. Should result in more persistent attacks.
  
• AI will attack a non-targeted enemies area if they can't attack anything else

// ah, damn, there already is a thread, only searched for "patch"|||I agree, I would prefer to have the patch # in the thread title. And this thread is easier to read. :)|||RPhilMan1

Supcom2 Update

Updates to Supreme Commander 2 have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The major changes include:
Fixes and Improvements
Increased lobby timeout to 8 seconds as an experiment, up from 4. This will increase matchmaker leniency, but may result in more shaky connections being permitted into games
Save Game Load fixes. Rare broken save games from v1.23 should load correctly now
Fix for illuminate Quantum Floating units sometimes not leaving wreckage, not firing off their death weapon, and not being able to fire their weapons when built on water
Fix for ACUs not finishing their current project when paused
Fixed UI based economy exploit
Balance
Adjusted vanilla tuning of Loyalists to match DLC.
Adjusted vanilla tuning of Cybran Jump Jets to match DLC.
Adjusted DLC tuning of Illuminate PD to match vanilla
AI
Fix for AI platoons being too timid.
Increased AI Prioritizing of enemy ACUs.
Fix for the AI researching items twice after loading a saved game or starting a game with all research unlocked.
Neural Net platoon fixes to salvo calculations. Should result in more persistent attacks.
AI will attack a non-targeted enemies area if they can't attack anything else

Discuss|||No balance changes |||I made a sadface.|||Save game fix has me confused. Is this v. 1.24? Great, now that HoF will never get filled.
I like the UI economy exploit fix and I feel like that, along with the AI fix, were the main reasons this update was pushed. Wish they'd fix some of the other, lesser bugs while they were at it however. I didn't realize that Illum PD were a bit cheaper till now too. Haha |||They fixed the hacker exploit and the AI timid problem and possible the lobby issue. Those are worth a patch cheer arent they?
Plus Funk, you yourself did say it was mostly well balanced? |||What was the UI exploit anyway? I figure now that it's fixed it can't hurt to tell.|||Probably to get extra RP, or to purchase upgrades without actually having the RP to do so.|||wneubert|||sorian|||So, if lobby disconnects get better, and the hacking now patched... MP may be alive again? |||They fixed the hacking? I thought they fixed the insane mass exploit like cat said. Not the one that ranked players are using to get ridiculous amounts of RP for free.
Also, I believe the exploit only gave you free mass. Still need to get energy the legit way.|||dawumyster|||RPhilMan1|||vax2007|||Unfortunately, it doesn't look like there's anyone to report to. Sup2 doesn't use VAC (thank God) so you can't cry to anyone at Steam support. GPG would be the only people capable of doing anything. Since they haven't yet patched it out nor clobbered his profile, I'm going to take an educated guess and say that GPG is sitting on it until they fix it entirely, or haven't worked out a solution.|||duncane|||Nice patch, AI is more aggressive now.
But still, late-game AI seems to mass ~40++ major land experimentals in their base and do nothing with them.
Also the invisible-buildings and invisible-engineers bug against the AI still happens.|||Sorian: +1, as always. The hard AI will probably crush me on 2v2 maps now, if I dont rush...
Balancing: -1, as its absent.|||wneubert|||Nephylim|||I played a couple games now. The first time I won in what seemed an easy victory, but the AI did attack so I wasn't sure what to think. Besides it was barely above normal and 1v1.
The next game though was a FFA with 3AI, custom about midway between normal and hard. OMG, they pounded me into the dirt like I have never seen before. I still can't believe it. If it wasn't the AI, I'd be thinking they cheated. If this was any indication, the AI is back with a vengence.
AI did mass 10 AC-130 near his base, then used them to annihilate me, which is exactly what I like to do:)|||redmoth|||connection issue didnt feel any better this evening.|||Did things work better after the steam update today? (You've got to restart the steam client to update.)|||Didnt really notice much of a difference...